
AT THE TOP OF CORRUPT ROMAN CATHOLICISM SITS THE PAPACY - A HUMAN CONSTRUCTION - AND NOT CREATED BY GOD OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST.
The words of scripture that the RC apologists rely on for their doctrine of the papacy and papal infallibility are:
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
This passage is most frequently quoted by Catholics to support Petrine theory (papal succession), that proposes Jesus founded His church on Peter (the rock). The Protestant will usually point out that two different words for "rock" are present in the Greek text- "thou art Peter (Petros), and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church;" ... . The distinction that is apparently being made in the Greek is one of size. Petros equates to a pebble, or small stone, while petra equates to a massive foundation stone, too large to be moved:
This distinction in the Greek, the Protestant points out, makes it clear that Peter is not the rock that the church is founded upon, but rather Peter's profession of faith and/or Jesus Himself. To this the Catholic will likely respond that early church fathers indicate the book of Matthew was originally written in Aramaic, not Greek. The Greek, they will say, has been incorrectly rendered because petra, being feminine in the Greek, could not have been used to represent Peter's name. They will propose that what Jesus really said in Aramaic to Simon Peter was this: "thou art Peter (Kepha), and upon this rock (kepha) I will build my church;" ... . The original Aramaic, they will point out, makes it quite plain that Peter was indeed the rock. No Aramaic texts of Matthew have survived, they have all been lost. So just what the Aramaic texts might have said is nothing but pure speculation. So speculation is all they can muster as evidence to support Petrine theory in Matthew 16:18.
Some Catholics may even suggest that there has always been a unanimous Church interpretation of this passage in support Petrine theory, at least up until relatively recent Protestant dissent to the presumed authority of the papacy. The following is presented to show that even early "Christian fathers" were actually quite diverse in their interpretation of this passage in Matthew and they most certainly did not agree that Peter was the foundation rock (petra) which Jesus spoke about.
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| BISHOP STROSSMAYER |
An interesting and important speech - which some say was made by Bishop Strossmayer of Croatia ant Vatican One in 1890 - and others say was actually written by a former Augustinian priest - a Mexican named Dr Jose Agustin de Escudero.
(2) That the apostles never recognized in St. Peter the vicar of Jesus Christ and the infallible doctor of the church.
(3) That St. Peter never thought of being pope, and never acted as if he were pope.
(4) That the Councils of the first four centuries, while they recognized the high position which the Bishop of Rome occupied in the church on account of Rome, only accorded to him a pre-eminence of honor, never of power or of jurisdiction.
(5) That the holy fathers in the famous passage, 'Thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,' never understood that the church was built on Peter (super Petrum) but on the rock (super petram), that is, on the confession of the faith of the apostle. I conclude victoriously, with history, with reason, with logic, with good sense, and with a Christian conscience, that Jesus Christ did not confer any supremacy on St. Peter and that the bishops of Rome did not become sovereigns of the church, but only by confiscating one by one all the rights of the episcopate.
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| FATHER JOSE AUGUSTIN DE ESCUDERO |
Whichever of them wrote the speech it seems to me that the content of the speech is very important and very informing. Its conclusions are:
(1) That Jesus has given to His apostles the same power that He gave to St. Peter.
(2) That the apostles never recognized in St. Peter the vicar of Jesus Christ and the infallible doctor of the church.
(3) That St. Peter never thought of being pope, and never acted as if he were pope.
(4) That the Councils of the first four centuries, while they recognized the high position which the Bishop of Rome occupied in the church on account of Rome, only accorded to him a pre-eminence of honor, never of power or of jurisdiction.
(5) That the holy fathers in the famous passage, 'Thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,' never understood that the church was built on Peter (super Petrum) but on the rock (super petram), that is, on the confession of the faith of the apostle. I conclude victoriously, with history, with reason, with logic, with good sense, and with a Christian conscience, that Jesus Christ did not confer any supremacy on St. Peter and that the bishops of Rome did not become sovereigns of the church, but only by confiscating one by one all the rights of the episcopate.
It is also important to note that for the first 1870 years of Catholicism it was not a defined doctrine of the church that the pope was infallible.
The doctrine of papal infallibility was not totally new - it had been used by Pope Pius in defining the Immaculate Conception of Mary as a dogma in 1854.
The bishops at the council were divided into three camps:
1. Those promoting infallibility and their supporters - people like Henry Manning.
2. A majority of the bishops who did want to strengthen papal authority - but not actual papal infallibility.
3. A minority of 10% who opposed the definition because it was a departure from the position of the early church and would create more tensions with non-Catholic churches and governments. In this group, you had most of the German and Austro Hungarian bishops, half of the American bishops, one-third of the French bishops and most of the Chaldean and Melkite bishops.
The First Vatican Council was very controversial and involved the 1050 bishops present in a great argument. Urged on by Pope Pius the majority got their way.
The council was suspended by the pope - and never resumed and left most of what it had intended to do undone/
PATS VIEWS:
1. I believe that JESUS HIMSELF is the head of the Church and not the pope.
2. I do not believe that the pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth.
3. I do not believe that Peter regarded himself as a pope.
4. I don't know if Peter was ever in Rome?
5. I believe that the papacy is a human construct.
6. I think that the pope by tradition and by being the bishop of an important city has become the FIRST AMONG EQUALS.
7. I believe that the Vatican has become more and more corrupt over the ages and that many of the popes were bad, weak or evil men.
8. I believe that the Vatican and the RC Church needs major reform.
9. I believe that the Holy Spirit speaks through EVERYBODY and not just through prelates and clerics.
10. I believe that the Catholic church and all churches should be governed by a council of all its members - representing laity and clergy.
11. I believed that all churches should follow the Bible - especially the New Testament - rather than man-made canon laws.
The doctrine of papal infallibility was not totally new - it had been used by Pope Pius in defining the Immaculate Conception of Mary as a dogma in 1854.
The bishops at the council were divided into three camps:
1. Those promoting infallibility and their supporters - people like Henry Manning.
2. A majority of the bishops who did want to strengthen papal authority - but not actual papal infallibility.
3. A minority of 10% who opposed the definition because it was a departure from the position of the early church and would create more tensions with non-Catholic churches and governments. In this group, you had most of the German and Austro Hungarian bishops, half of the American bishops, one-third of the French bishops and most of the Chaldean and Melkite bishops.
The First Vatican Council was very controversial and involved the 1050 bishops present in a great argument. Urged on by Pope Pius the majority got their way.
The council was suspended by the pope - and never resumed and left most of what it had intended to do undone/
PATS VIEWS:
1. I believe that JESUS HIMSELF is the head of the Church and not the pope.
2. I do not believe that the pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth.
3. I do not believe that Peter regarded himself as a pope.
4. I don't know if Peter was ever in Rome?
5. I believe that the papacy is a human construct.
6. I think that the pope by tradition and by being the bishop of an important city has become the FIRST AMONG EQUALS.
7. I believe that the Vatican has become more and more corrupt over the ages and that many of the popes were bad, weak or evil men.
8. I believe that the Vatican and the RC Church needs major reform.
9. I believe that the Holy Spirit speaks through EVERYBODY and not just through prelates and clerics.
10. I believe that the Catholic church and all churches should be governed by a council of all its members - representing laity and clergy.
11. I believed that all churches should follow the Bible - especially the New Testament - rather than man-made canon laws.










