I founded THE ORATORY SOCIETY in 1986 to be the umbrella body of the ministry that takes place here at Larne in County Antrim. We are 31 years on now.
The Constitution of The Oratory Society allowed for a number of expressions of priesthood, ministry and religious life.
This ministry is something that can be undertaken by lay men and women, by priests and by men and women who wished to live in common as members of a religious community/house.
My first priestly ordination was of a woman - Mother Francis Meigh - who is not a member of The Oratory Society but who has lived as an independent priest/hermit at Forkhill in County Armagh for the past 19 years. Mother Francis is also an accomplished artist and iconographer.
Recently there has been a development whereby a priest and a seminarian with a monastic background have made the decision to come together to live a community life as The Little Brothers of The Oratory at a venue near The Oratory itself in Larne.
They will open a community house, have daily Mass and pray The Divine Office at their new community house. They hope to be joined by other interested men as time goes on. They will be open to having visits from men and women who are considering living a very flexible religious life - either at the new venue, another venue, or even as "associates" in their own areas and homes.
The new house will have a common living and dining area and each of the "brothers" will have his own room. There will a chapel and a common library also.
Those living at this community house will equally share all the costs of the venture.
For prayer and formal gatherings, they will wear a simple religious habit - and this will be facilitated by the fact that one of the two new "brothers" is an experienced monastic tailor.
Apart from offering Mass and prayer for the intentions of others, they will also develop, over time, a ministry to others in accordance with their gifts and resources.
The "normal" three vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience will be interpreted in a non-traditional way to allow for people's needs and lifestyles.
One of the two new brothers is currently looking at and drawing up a simple Constitution and Rule of Life for the enterprise.
In the past few days, we have acquired a house large enough to begin this process.
People, as I say, can live in a community, out in the world and also be "associates".
We will be taking a 21st Century look at the three traditional vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience and seeing how modern promises can be made around the area of possessions, sexuality and Gospel-based obedience to God.
I will be joining the small community for Mass and The Divine Office as often as I can every week.
With the decline of churches and religion, people are being left without a spirituality that gets them through the highs and lows of life.
The community will also be completely ecumenical.
Anyone interested can contact me on:
bishopbuckley1@outlook.com
In the past few days, we have acquired a house large enough to begin this process.
People, as I say, can live in a community, out in the world and also be "associates".
We will be taking a 21st Century look at the three traditional vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience and seeing how modern promises can be made around the area of possessions, sexuality and Gospel-based obedience to God.
I will be joining the small community for Mass and The Divine Office as often as I can every week.
With the decline of churches and religion, people are being left without a spirituality that gets them through the highs and lows of life.
The community will also be completely ecumenical.
Anyone interested can contact me on:
bishopbuckley1@outlook.com
A religious group or congregation living in community without vows would be a more sensible foundation considering all the pulpit poofsies scandals we thrive on here.
ReplyDeletePulpit poofsies? Sounds like a breakfast cereal they might have at Maynooth.
DeleteYou 'two' a solo 'double' act?
DeleteC'mon chap! If you must clown around with yerself, at least try to be funny.😆
It's their call, Magna!
DeleteI disagree that it’s their call. It’s very likely the same individual who uses such derogatory jargon. One wonders about the level of obsession involved.
Delete"The "normal" three vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience will be interpreted." Now for the life of me I cannot understand why you of all people are supportive of such vows.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like the Roman Church by another means. I think in the modern secular world discussion about change and freedom is right.
In many ways I suppose I am like the herald of old; destined to cry in the wilderness.
One of my cries has always been do it right for all the right reasons. I am happy though for those who chose these ways if it makes the happy; but not necessarily free.
There is nothing wrong with a promise of commitment per se.
Deleteie: marriage?
Now Now, marriage is a vow; secular priestly ordination is a promise. ;-)
DeleteAnd religious order priests and nuns take a "vow".
DeleteAnd they say marriage is an institution.
Delete(But who wants to live in an institution..!)
No reason why people shouldn't share a house and their dining room. It has happened before but drawing up the Constitution beforehand is a very good idea. You have to decide in advance how you would react to certain situations eg if you have a few extra "brothers" happily living in the house for a few weeks or months and paying their share of expenses but then they stop or can't contribute and become freeloaders. They will test your depth of "charity" and will of course expect to experience to receive it to the full! Nice time had by all!
ReplyDeleteIn these cases most people come for a certain time - 3 days, a week, a no th etc.
DeleteThere is a third person look I g at the idea of staying 6 or 12 months before returning to his work and country.
I agree that there is a danger of freeloaders etc.
You are right to suggest pre arranged constitutions.
Of course there might be an occasion when a homeless person is accommodated for a short time and helped to find a new home.
There's also the greater danger of concupiscence.
Delete14:32, of course there will be such risk. Dud you seriously expect otherwise.
DeleteThe place will be staffed with people, not corpses.
Why has everyone run for cover??
DeleteMagna, I think Pat visualises this as a religious community.. Not sure where you got the "corpses" idea from. I know it's an undertaking but I don't think they meant in the undertaker sense. Anyway we wish them good luck whatever form it takes.
DeleteIt was a joke, 15:43, to point up the fact that wherever there are confined groups of people, (even religious people), there may be some degree of sexual attraction (and, therefore, a risk of concupiscence). So the point at 14:32 really didn't need stating.
DeleteThe only way to eliminate the risk is to staff the premises with corpses.
Fair point, Magna - - and of course with corpses you might run the risk of eventually ending up with only a skeleton staff and even less risk of concupiscence as people would have no body to be attracted to.
DeletePat will be taking all this into consideration I know.
Sounds interesting. I wish one and all a prayerful good luck. Even new ventures are subject to the joys and pitfalls that are part of human nature. The church started off on a positive note...All we can do is try and rely on the Grace of God and common sense
ReplyDeleteYes - and keep trying again and again.
DeleteI suggest that your "obedience" rule includes obedience to some pre-signed agreement regarding obeying your Manager's rota on things like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning and regulation of noise/music after certain hours and bedtime limits etc. Then there are issues regarding the house itself and its ongoing maintenance, rent and rates, insurance for roof and plumbing and electrical repairs and ongoing charges, public liability if you have occasional visitors to stay and so on..Then when the building becomes a house of "multiple occupancy" that brings its own special legal requirements eg regarding fire safety. These matters all should be part of your agenda before you undertake such a brave venture. Forewarned is forearmed.
ReplyDeleteEven though you might like everything to be free and unrestricted in the end you discover that rules are an essential part of sharing with justice, fairness and consideration for everyone's needs. Respect for good rules always ensures that the less assertive members are equally valued and not mistreated by those who get to the top of the pile.
It might be wise, Bishop Pat, to hold periodic reviews of your constitution, particularly its non-core elements.
ReplyDeleteConstitutions need to evolve, not to be set in legalistic stone. And this need becomes more obvious with the passage of time and changing attitudes and mores. It was procedural inertia that compunded recent scandals in the Roman Catholic Church, through attempts to deal with issues under entirely inappropriate canon laws.
Oh Magna.. ye gods...!
DeleteGo on, 15:35. Spit it out!
DeleteWhat's 'yer' point, man dear?😆
Aw Magna... Lol... Poor Pat might come across an attack of your "inertia" in his community hallway when the brother residents gather round his noticeboard and ready that today's 7.30 meeting will be yet another "Review of constitution - - tonight's exciting specialty will be Non Core Elements!"
Delete(Voice nearby heard saying.. Anyone for the pub?.. and a quick scuttle for the door!)
In fact there is a pub within walki g distance.
DeleteWhat's wrong with reviewing the constitution in the snug :-)
Are you accusin' me, 17:20, of havin' a committee mentality, of being (I can barely bring meself t'say it) BORING?
DeleteHa ha! Pat, tear down that hallway notice then! The Review of the hard core elements - or whatever it was.. will be in the pub. Gird up your albs and come on boys... Advice to Pat.. don't leave the discussion too late in the night and certainly before the singing gets underway!
DeleteNot at all, Magna! - - I tend to worry about the attendance at these non core inertia meetings. But there is a very successful branch of Inertia Anonymous just outside Larne. Hardly anyone turns up.
DeletePerhaps Magna could be recruited into this new community along with MMM and Sean Page. You could even get that Sr. Mary in to do a bit of cooking and cleaning. I hope you know what you are doing embarking on such a venture. I give it 6 months and that's being generous
ReplyDeleteMy God, 14:43! You must be the reincarnation of Cahal B. Daly.
DeleteWhat was it he once famously said of Fr Pat Buckley? Oh, yes! That he'd be gone in six weeks. And that was 31 years ago!
Now you are giving this spiritual enterprise 6 months. Is there something about the number '6' that fascinates you?
'Cackle', will you ever learn?
14:43 But if you don't try it would it work anyway.
DeleteI think we should always be willing to try something good.
Warning from the soothsayer
Delete6 is the number of incompletion.
That's probably why 6 is only half a dozen..
@14.11
ReplyDeleteI suspect that there speaks the voice of experience!
Very, very good advice...
I have sometimes thought about such a lay movement of prayer and community which would make use of vacant convents, like the Louis Convent in Ballymena. Committed to daily prayer, daily parish mass and good works. However firm clear rules need to be in place. It’s good and beautiful where brothers dwell in unity! But when they don’t, it’s hell.
ReplyDeleteBTW monks take vows of Stability, Obedience and Conversion of Life! Much more general I think.
Please don’t comment on the grammar, it’s the sentiments that are important.
Best of luck with the community. I wonder about another community though. The seminarians in the Irish College in Rome. Fr Hugh Clifford used to be like Sky News posting photographs of the students their on the College's website. There haven't been any in months (since you started featuring them). Wasn't it weird that Maynooth was anti-social media and Rome was letting us know online what they were having for breakfast.
ReplyDeleteYes. Those pics don't appear now.
DeleteAnd there was never a pic of Gorgeous when he was there?
Thank God for small mercies..
DeletePat, can you tell us where the house is based? It's good to know as the impact of Brexit might effect me especially if there is a hard border.
ReplyDeleteAlso if you could say more about the 3 vows and how they impact the members of the community.
Thank you
Co. Antrim, near LARNE.
DeleteIf you have an Irish passport you will have free movement in the UK.
I think we want the poverty one to be more about generosity, the chastity one to be more about the moral use of sexuality and the obedience one to be about obeying God and not men.
Ha ha @16.13
DeleteNo flies on you, you lil devil!!
Pat told you where the house is... down the road from the pub. It's not New York...
DeleteAhh now those vows sound better and definitely not Roman. Are you good to contact on a side issue I'm having in ministry?
DeleteOf course.
DeleteNot being over religious or anything , Pat, but I think you have gone bonkers
ReplyDeleteThis house sounds like a geriatric home costing 600 a week, only it for younger layabouts
What with all the gloomy future, Brexit and no local gov, I suspect it could be a cosy respite.
Are women allowed on board ?
Yes. Women are indeed.
DeleteAw Gawd.. not Mrs Doyle and the preachy Sr Mary? (Why is everyone locked in his room.. this can't be what Pat had in mind, can it? Has anybody a copy of that St Benedict book..,)
DeleteThe Rule of St. Benedict is a good guide.
DeleteIs this the new community that you were dreaming up a few months ago?
ReplyDeleteIsn’t there a community of prayer in Cookstown?
ReplyDeleteI know someone who prays there every week.
A lot of people who find themselves in Cookstown start prayin' fast. Crossmaglen used to be the same.
DeleteWill show us what the house is like Pat?
ReplyDeleteAny thoughts about a web-site for this new community.... will it be possible to do retreats in it?
Website? Don't get ahead o'yourself.. Give the man a chance.. He's checking his Benedict bits.
DeletePat, I am an ex Maynooth seminarian who left voluntarily and would be interested in the community. Will email in the next day or two.
ReplyDeleteAre you Phonsie? - Don't be afraid to say.
DeleteGreat idea.I think it will go very well.
ReplyDeleteThe notion of new Christian communities is not new. Many such small communities exist already in Ireland who endeavour to live in the spirit of the gospel. Your "dream" sounds very inviting but if it is to be a "living, vibrant, faithful" community it requires a structure. Look at the Chemin Neuf Community, which I had the privilege of visiting recently near Chambery, France. A most inspiring New Christian Community based in a former Benedictine Monastery. France already has other similar communities which I've also visited. The Taize Community provided a model of being a powerful community. The choice of member is important as you don't want trouble makers seeking refuge from the world!! The future of Christianity will be compised of small communities as in the early Church, outlined in the Acts of the Apostles. Pat, this topic dederves thoughtful, prayerful consideration. It's the kind of issue that will spark some imagination in renewal of God's people. I think it's unfortunate, yet again, that the unbearable Magna, with his sneering contempt for others and his pathetic attempt at humour belittles and ridicules the "dream" rather than offering inspiration of any kind. We need "visionaries" not sneering fools!
ReplyDeleteThank YOU for the helpful pointers.
DeleteNow there was a profound statement from poster 18.28....."new Christian communities is not new"!
Delete(Magna.. why are you laughing?)
Very interesting. I too am interested. I have read of Chemin Neuf. They have even been invited into the Ecumenical group living in Lambeth. This is a positive development. With God's Grace it will prosper. Please keep us informed. Anymore to share on CN?
DeletePat, if your project is to be successful and fruitful, take on board the positive suggestions from some contributors today. On such an exciting concept, you deserve people who are emotionally and spiritually balanced who have the capacity to live in a community of like-minded people. Each parish should strive to be a template of real gospel living, nourished by prayer and the Eucharist. Christian communities should not be complicated. And I believe you don't need the caustic, infantile and empty comnents of Magna. Think his comments today are an ominius sign of his wayward moodswings - again!! They don't belong in this reflective debate.
ReplyDeleteYou make a lot of sense.
DeleteIt will be difficult to build. As we all have a bit of neurosis there will be challenges.
I, personally, would like to be a member of this little community - probably as a very regular visitor rather than full time live in.
Nor does it need a "boss" .
You'll larn. boy!
DeleteIf you decide to join that new Larne community, Pat, if I was you I'd definitely opt for being a day boy and not a boarder. You could call in when the heat of the day was over and then nip down to the pub on non core business or whatever when the going got tough..
DeleteI will be a "day boy"
DeleteVery wise, Pat... A body needs his own space and his own bed..
DeleteAm I right in saying Pat, that your religious community welcomes priests, brothers and sisters?
ReplyDeleteOr is it only a male only community?
A brochure would be nice if you were to produce one.
And married couples and singles - not necessarily living in.
DeleteSounds like a refuge for rejects from real religious life.
ReplyDelete"The stone that the builders rejected became the corner stone???
DeleteI'd say it would be good craic, but I can't see Bishop Treanor sending his candidates there instead of Maynooth!
DeleteGood one Pat! 20:56
Delete20:47 God rejects no one!
As for "Real" religious life?
It is lived daily by many men and women who selflessly raise families and attend to the needs of their brothers and sisters friend and stranger alike as within their gift. It is lived in the poverty of benefit sanctions and food banks, a string of low paid jobs and zero hours contracts. Their lectio divina is a pile of bills, for some their cell is an open doorway. For others, chastity and obedience is a miserere of inescapable domestic abuse. If "Real" religious life is marble, gold leaf and lacey vestments, unless it is using this inheritance to serve the poor in mind, body and spirit, it is nothing but a whited sepulchre!
I would like to wish "The Little Brothers Of The Oratory" Every joy in the foundation of their monastery and pray it's apostolate and mission, a blessing to all the people of God. (Whether that be in the "Peoples House" (Pub) or "The House Of The People" (Oratory) ;-) )X
I bet many a religious order had such comms ts said of them when they were founded.
DeleteAlso, given the carry on in some places such as Maynooth it may be a credit to an individual to have been rejected - but let us not to assume that either man has been rejected. The majority that go are smart enough to leave before being corrupted.
23.55 Ron Rolheiser wrote about the monastery of small children. No-one is more demanding than a baby or small child. That is the discipline that gets most lay people to heaven. Chastity...and poverty often come with it.
DeleteSo you Pat are not running this house of prayer?
ReplyDeleteYou are just recommending it
So this is not the new church you were writing about months ago?
Please can you explain
Would I need to pay to live there in prayer
I don't think you will be able to live there free? - You're not from Derry surely!
DeleteI notice that you emphasise the point that members of this community don't "necessarily need to live in". What's the point of that? Who purchased this property? Who vetts the members who decide to "live in"? There seems more questions than answers here. Sounds to me it's an excuse for a bunch of misfits to live together - how long can they last living together? Must be a huge property if every ex Seminarian wants to join or those wanting to escape the effects of Brexit.
ReplyDeletePat has told you! He, himself intends to be a day boy. I don't know how long these people will live inside. Somebody said today that he thought they were ones who had been given six months. But then the soothsayer came on and said that was only the half of it. Pat says there is not going to be a boss so nobody will know who is vetting them. They will be women coming in and their little brothers but some people will be able to go home and the pub is down the road. I'm sure we'll hear more in the days ahead.
DeleteSo why is it called the little brothers?
ReplyDeleteAre no women allowed?
Bishop Pat, the commentors at 18:28 and 18:42 made untruthful statements about my contributions to the blog today concerning your new spiritual enterprise. Each has, in his own way, stated that I sneered at your proposed spiritual venture. I did issue a response to 18:42, which you declined to publish, thereby denying me the right of reply.
ReplyDeleteI draw your attention, in particular, to my comment at 18:59. It offered considered and positive advice, on the preferability of periodically reviewing the constitution for the new religious house.
Another comment, at 18:48, was a jocular put-down of a poster who, in my opinion, made an obvious (and, therefore, unnecessary) remark.
The remainder of my comments today had nothing whatever to do with the proposed new house.
I hope that you will now redress the balance by publishing this statement.
This is the eighth comment on this post from MC.
DeleteAnd (s)he is complaining about further posts not being published.
This house of prayer that you endorse Pat seems to me to be a non starter.
ReplyDeleteDo you honestly believe it will take off
Mostly people who are wandering without jobs....people on the dole....
Do you envision a man with a good profession or in a good paid job will want to live there, so that he could pray of an evening?
Assuming that most commentators here are catholic faithful, it is indeed disheartening to see that the value system of some (Many?) is more in tune with the values of "The World" than of Jesus, who went out of his way to minister to and call the poor and outcast.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely no reason for Tom to say that! None whatsoever..
ReplyDeleteThanks for the prophetic voice, Tom. A prophet consoles and challenges and can discern when one or the other is called for. You have provided lots of consolation here to date, and now, a challenge.
ReplyDeleteThank you Tom Wood for your contributions. A Little Brother.
ReplyDeleteJust a thought. I don't like the word little as in little brothers or sisters. Gives the wrong idea. Cartoon image Perhaps like little sisters of the poor mouth
ReplyDeleteI've had reservations about the word "Little" too Sean, but perhaps we should view it like St. Therese and The "Little" way in that the brethren are aiming for the same simple universality of access and approach, that, if the seed take root, might produce the most profound spiritual blossoming and conversion of life. In this sense, "little" acorns are potential mighty oaks!
Delete