Sunday, 16 July 2017

PRIEST'S SALARIES / REMUNERATION


Image result for priests salary

A blog reader posted the following yesterday:

"Several days ago someone queried the income and conditions of retired priests. I also heard that in some dioceses such men live in poverty. Bishop, would you not consider this subject worthy of investigation"?


I think that the comment maker's suggestion is very good. Let us have a discussion about the income of priests - working and retired.

The above graph shows that the average income of a priest in the USA is $45,593.

That is Sterling £ 34,825 or Euros 39,759.

My first reaction to that is that US priests do better than priests in Ireland or England?

Of course you have to take into account free accommodation, telephone and car allowances, housekeeper allowances, diocesan car insurance schemes, interest-free car loans and anything else that might be available.


Image result for church collection plate

MY EXPERIENCE:

I have not received a Church income for 31 years. So I cannot say what priests in the likes of Down and Connor get today. I am told it is £20,000 + for a curate and £24,000+ for a parish priest?

When I was ordained in 1976 I went as a curate in the parish of Bridgend in South Wales. My remuneration was my accommodation, telephone, food - and £5 per week pocket money.

The PP was supposed to give me an interest-free loan to get a car but he refused.

A kind lady bought me a car for £850 and then the PP had to pay my tax, insurance, and maintenance. I had to but my petrol out of the £5.

Petrol in 1976 was 17 p a litre :-)


BELFAST:

When I was in St Peter's in Belfast from 1978 I had free accommodation, food, telephone etc and was given c £80 a month in cash.

I was also entitled to an interest-free car loan and allowances for insurance, tax and maintenance.

I also got some money from the Christmas, Easter and November Masses for the dead. The November Dead Masses were referred to in the presbytery
 as THE NOVEMBER STAKES!



FILOPINO CHURCH NOTICE BOARD
WEDDING P 7,000 = £106
BAPTISM P  300 - 1000 =   £5 - £15
CONFIRMATION P 500 = £7.50
FUNERAL MASS P 300 =  £5
FUNERAL BLESSING P 150 = 2.50
CERTIFICATES P 50 = £0.90p
MASS INTENTIONS P 50 = 0.90 p


IMAGINE OFFERING AN IRISH PRIEST 1 EURO FOR A MASS :-)


GENERAL:

I think we can make the following general points:

1. Priests salaries seem to vary from diocese to diocese.

2. Retired priests get a portion of their original salary.

3. Priests seem to earn between £17,000 and £30,000 and more in the USA.

4. On top of that priests seem to have other benefits - car expenses, housekeeping, telephone, internet, car insurance schemes, private health cover, free accommodation.

Priests also get money for baptisms, weddings and funerals. These sums vary.

Priests get a daily Mass Offering.


In my 41 years in the priesthood I have never met a homeless priest, a hungry priest, a priest without some kind of allowance income.


Image result for a rich priest

I have met priests who could change their cars very regularly, priests who went yachting in the Aegean sea, priests who had their own holiday home, priests who betted a lot of money on horses, priests who went to race meetings, priests who had several holidays a year, priests who ran their own business, etc.

I imagine it all varies.

It would be good to hear from priests about their salaries - or family members or church financial people who know the score on priest's salaries. 


Image result for a rich priest


MAYBE IRISH PRIESTS SHOULD BE TOLD TO PUBLISH THEIR "PRICES" ON NOTICE BOARDS OUTSIDE THEIR CHURCHES?

AT LEAST IT IS UP FRONT!

97 comments:

  1. The difference Pat is a U.S.A priest is in his office working 8 to 10 hours a day with appointments etc. The expectation is you are in your Parish office to meet people for a load of different reasons. In Ireland and England SOME Priests dont have office hours but can roam about and do as they please for the day once morning mass is over.go do what they want to do. They are not held accountable by the people like in the U.S.A. just a thought to share.

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  2. Who cares
    They entitled to all the services that the rest of us oldies get
    Why make a difference
    Is this the best u can do of a Sunday.

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    Replies
    1. Many priests sermons will be about money today?

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    2. The only mention of money at Masses this weekend was the emergency Trocaire collection being taken up throughout Ireland next weekend to help some of the victims of the food shortages in East Africa.

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    3. Will Trocaire be using any of this appeal money, as it did last year, sending some of our Bishops to Africa on an all expenses paid trip. Free flights, free comfortable hotels, free food and drink and other expenses - all in the name of a 'fact finding mission'. The Bishop of Down & Connor was one such Bishop pictured smiling with a fine hat on admidst the shanty towns and poverty.

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  3. I think European Priests have it so easy. They make not a lot of money but not a lot is asked of them apart from a 20 mins daily mass. A funeral. Wedding or baptism which they get well paid for. They get paid basically for doing Jack shit. Yet a lot of them bitch about everything they have to do. People no longer ask a priest for anything as they can never be reached in their presbyteries apart from when they are magicians performing Sacraments. No.one needs a priest anymore. No wonder the priests dont believe any more in what they do or celebrate . 90% of them are losers and more interested in control. Promotion. Or a lifestyle contrary to the vocation they are asked to commit to. What Jesus expects of them. What the people of God expect from them.

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    1. Anin at 00.51. You pathetic fool. You are another priest hater and church basher. You know little of the subject at centre of this blig today. It's lazy to throw out general remarks. But you are wrong on almost every word. However, Pat will be glad of your dishonesty and mischevious contribution.

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  4. My income as a priest in an Irish diocese is roughly £17,000 a year. I don't "charge" for anything. If someone gives an offering for a Baptism, Wedding, Funeral, etc - well and good.

    The amount can be varied - average £40 for a funeral or wedding - rarely more than that. Baptisms I rarely get a stole fee. Most days there is no stipend for the daily Mass.

    I never have more than £2,500 in my bank account. I only have one bank account and I have no other income other than the monthly stipend.

    Some priests are from a monied background and have independent means, so they can afford all these luxuries of expensive cars and holidays, etc. I don't come from a wealthy family and haven't any rich friends or patrons.

    I am not complaining. I am very happy with my lot. I pay for my petrol and food. I don't have a housekeeper. The parish pays the electric and accommodation is free. I pay my own insurance and I pay my taxes.

    I try to support charities as best I can and I have been regarded I know as gullible for a "tap" at the front door. It's not about money - our life as priests. There have been a few times when I was younger that I did not have 2d to rub together and I had to rely on my mother to feed me as I couldn't afford to buy food.

    I never mention money from the Altar and I have a finance committee. Our cheques have to be co-signed so that it's not just me making financial decisions about the parish. I take the advice of my financial council and I follow it. I keep strict audited accounts and there is financial transparency in our financially poor parish.

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    1. Our parish priest recently got a very modest car, paid for by the bank of mum and dad. He lives very frugaly. He gets the winter fuel allowance each year...which he donates to the parish.

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    2. In Edinburgh rent for a one bed flat costs £700 per month on average, plus £125.00 Council Tax and around £60 for gas and electricity, so you are not doing too bad on £17,000 a year without the foregoing expenses.

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    3. I'd like to see the state of that flat for £700 a month in Edinburgh. Very cheap council tax, cheap gas and electricity. Must be the cheapest in the whole of the uk. Edinburgh is also an expensive city, your £17,000 a year won't last long. What about travel, telephone, office and fuel? Would you have to beg on top of that for your food and clothes?

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    4. Well done, Father! By virtue of his training and qualifications, a priest would be classed in secular terms as a 'professional'. But the salaries or stipends paid to priests have fallen far behind those paid to comparable professionals. In fairness to priests, men who place others before their own financial needs, their salaries/stipends should be benchmarked with that of comparable professionals. For the sake of transparency, the published scale salaries of the teaching profession could be adopted, and the priests should be paid accordingly with increments based on age and experience. They should also be provided with fully funded pensions. A labourer is worthy of his hire.

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  5. MourneManMichael16 July 2017 at 01:29

    In my naivete, having been a very long time away from any RC church involvement (50 years +), I'd assumed that priests received a salary from diocesan funds sufficient for essential day to day needs, and that for "services rendered": funeral masses, weddings and the like, parishoners could, if they so wished, give the officiating priest an extra 'thank-you' financial gift. In my mind, that would be something like £50 max in todays terms.
    So based on this blog's info, it seems I'm completely out of touch with the current financial implications of being a 'practising parishoner' following the expected financial and expected requirements of the RC church in relation to the customary rites of passage; baptism, first HC, confirmation, marriage and burial.
    Now aren't I even more glad that I kicked all that lot into touch almost 50 years ago!
    The sad thing though is that so much money is given to the RC church by generous well meaning parishoners in a misguided belief that their contributions are necessary and essential, and are 100% directly used to assist the needy.
    MMM

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    1. You are are a rather self righteous little man aren't you mmm?

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    2. He is entitled to his opinion and to express it?

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    3. I'm not sure that anyone is entitled to an opinion about easily verifiable facts. In Ireland priests in parishes are not paid a salary from diocesan funds. They receive a stipend which is their share of the stipend collections taken up exclusively for that purpose. Like anyone else who happens to end up with more money than they need they have a duty to think of the poor at home and abroad.

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  6. Does a priest have to declare any donations to his bishop? Are masses still tax-free cash in hand affairs? Normally,I would support you but in this instance you come across as hypocritical. You say a kindly lady bought you a car. I'm presuming here she is a parishioner or person unrelated to you by blood. You also say it cost 850 quid in 1976. How much would that be in today's money? For a normal person in a normal job, how often would a friend or someone they met in work offer them a free car? Did you keep the car or did the parish or diocese keep the car after you moved on from there? As I said before, I usually have a lot of sympathy for you but in this instance here, it seems, potentially, a case of pot and kettle.

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    1. She was not a parishioner - but a loyal friend. We looked after each other in different ways until her death.

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  7. Mourne Man, precisely what I thought Pat would encourage. Begrudgery of generosity towards priests and the Church. We give offerings out of our means. No priest has ever requested specific amounts from me for requests. I give what I can. It is totally mean spirited if Pat to promote this nasty begrudgery and unkindness. I also know of many priests who receive nothing for their services. You should not rely in untruthful Pat for information. He seeks only to misinform and to destroy others, priests particularly.

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    1. MMM, also look at the nuns and Christian Brothers getting Euro 13 million for ONE of their properties.

      They went out to do good and THEY DID WELL!

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  8. Was appalled to read on yesterday's blog when you suggested you would bring your own Communion to a Mass if you get refused at an altar. What kind of message does that send out? The Blessed Sacrament should not be used in this way.

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    1. Neither should a sincere Mass attender, in good faith - and clear conscience - be refused by a cleric - who may or may not be in what the RC gang call "the state of grace" ?

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    2. "What kind of message does that send out?" "Holy things should not be used in that way!" That is what the Jews told Jesus when he lost the head in the temple and thrashed the workers and kicked the money tables to the ground.

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    3. But you are not sincere. You merely wish to provoke a reaction and cause scandal, which has been the cornerstone of your 'ministry'.

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    4. One of the cornerstones of my ministry has indeed being "provocative".

      Was Jesus not "provocative" when he said things like: "I have not come to bring peace to the earth. I have come to cast fire.....and turn brother against brother" etc ....

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    5. Jesus was a faithful Jew and the true Son of God. Please don't place yourself in that category.

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    6. I AM in that category - I am a follower of the faithful Jew and son of God.

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  9. Augustine of Hippo wisely insisted that those who joined his religious community should not be materially better off as a result - one way of excluding at least one category of unsuitable applicant and keeping upstarts in their place.

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    1. Augustine of Hippo? Really! Not the greatest role model given his history.

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    2. To which elements of Augustine's history do you refer? Do we not believe in conversion, repentance and rehabilitation?

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    3. 10:57, and not just his personal history, but his damaging, pseudo-theology (especially that on the eschatological destiny of unbaptised children and adults).

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    4. Oh dear -where would some of us be without the Internet and the doubtful "scholarship" which it sometimes throws up! (I suggest we don't throw out our books just yet, guys!)

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    5. 'Doubtful scholarship'? So you deny that Augustine taught this erroneous doctrine?

      Or perhaps you agree with him that the souls of unbaptised children and adults suffer 'the real though mitigated pains of hell'? (Yes, you read correctly: Augustine did not teach about Limbo...that would come in a later century..., but about hell.)

      So what, in your opinion, is the 'doubtful scholarship' here: the claim that Augustine taught this doctrine; or the grounds for rejecting it (the theological foundation of which was the teaching of the Romano-British monk and heretic, Pelagius).

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    6. Thanks Magna! No--there's a lot of sound bites of info. around(especially on the Internet) which are incomplete and misleading. Some of them are carefully selected snippets, for example, from a few different books which are written to prove a point from heavily biased or else evangelical points of view. So reader beware!
      It's generally accepted though that the Peter Brown biography of Augustine (1967)is pretty reliable and would give you the kind of balanced information that you are seeking. (I think there's a newer paperback edition but I haven't come across it yet.) It is also recommended with St Augustine to read the "Retractiones".
      It would do an injustice to the topic to attempt to add more pro/cons here as there as there just isn't the space to properly expand the arguments etc
      This is exactly the point I am trying to make!
      I hope this response is helpful and finds you in in good health.

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    7. If you are Anon. at 14:36, 1967 is a long time ago (and well before my time): patristical scholarship has moved on somewhat since.

      If you are not that Anon., then thank you.

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  10. I hear Bishop Campbell in Lancaster is not happy with you or your blog, he is far from being a happy man. Don't be surprised if he tries to take your blog down as he has already succeeded in removing blogs particularly from within his own diocese. Just a friendly warning.

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  11. Father Paddy McCafferty on Sunday Morning Live this morning saying how wonderful Catholic teaching against contraception is. Then he said contraception only lead to permissiveness. Many would not mind the Church being against contraception but the teaching is taken too far. Freely using contraception is regarded as a serious hell-deserving sin - that is too harsh. And even if your responsibility is limited it is still regarded as a grave objective moral evil. I think the hatred implicit in the doctrine and in Humanae Vitae needs addressing and more attention.

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    1. Paddy is entitle to his opinion and to express it.

      There are serious issues with it though. One of the important elements of Church teaching is the concept of reception - how a particular decision is received, over time, by the faithful.

      In the case of contraception, Humanae Vitae's line has been rejected by more than 90% of RCs - and that in ever-increasing numbers over a 50-year period.

      Paddy would be wise to steer clear of sexual ethics.

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  12. I don't think Fr Mc cafferay has any knowledge with regard to contraception
    He is not medically trained...so he should shut the f up
    Contraception should only be discussed between GP and couples who are in a committed relationship

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  13. With respect, Fr Paddy is more than a little naive sometimes, and dogmatic too often.

    I agree that using contraceptives can, at least theoretically, morally devalue sexual acts by leading to the objectification of a partner or spouse. But there are exceptions to their prohibition that were recognised even by Pope Paul VI: he gave approval to nuns in the Belgian Congo to use the contraceptive pill, in order to avoid conception through rape during the insurrection there.

    Some, like Father Paddy, seem incapable of recognising the ever-present nuances in any situation. These can make theological absolutes and imperatives the stuff of academic unreality.

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    1. Poor Paddy is a very damaged man who takes comfort in right wing Roman Catholicism.

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    2. MourneManMichael16 July 2017 at 14:37

      Magna: this is the kind of temperate, informative and balanced expression of opinion many of us on the blogsphere appreciate and value regardless of whoever may agree or disagree with your perspective on Fr McCafferty.
      Thank you for your earlier reply to my comment about ageism.
      MMM

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    3. I think on this blog, we know quite a few people who are habitually "dogmatic" Magna--yes?

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    4. I thought the priest spoke with compassion and realism on a thorny topic.

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    5. 14:40, absolutely not! (Just bein' dogmatic again.😆)

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    6. Bishop Pat at 14:13, yes, when a person is so badly damaged in this way, he, understandably, may seek some stabilising influence in his life, some refuge. But for this influence to work psychologically, there must be absolute and unquestioning faith in it, even if, objectively speaking, the influence is flawed.

      Damaged people in this circumstance can become incorrigibly dogmatic, not because they are arrogant, but because, for their own welfare, they must.

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    7. Here, Magna Carta, Nexus are short of staff and there's a huge need for expert counsellors like yourself to help with the backlog of people in desperate need of help. Why don't you take a run over in the morning? With all your experience and doctorates, I'm sure they will be delighted to have you on board! One thing is clear - neither you nor Pat Buckley know this man. I have never heard such patronising, condescending horses**t in my life. Just because he has a different vision, a different view from the one you would favour, you both presume to pontificate about what, for him, must have been deeply painful matters - matters with which he has dealt very courageously and publicly - and which resulted in him and the other survivors of Jim Donaghy taking down that dangerous predator. Shame on you both. I expect not much else from the troll but I am really disappointed in you, Pat.

      Abuse survivor, Belfast.

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    8. The James Donaghy case resulted, in part, to my ten years work with Victim A's family.

      Ask them they will tell you.

      And - I too am "an abuse survivor".

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    9. Then you should know better! Referring to a fellow survivor as as if he is "damaged goods" in a public forum and that his legitimate opinions are the result of him being "damaged goods" is all the more despicable if you are, as you claim, as "an abuse survivor"! Shame on you. Abuse survivor, Belfast.

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    10. 20:16, no one used the phrase 'damaged goods'. You misquoted and misrepresented legitimate opinion.

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    11. 17:59, I expressed an opinion of Fr Paddy, which I am entitled to do. What's more, I stand by every word of what I stated, regardless of your (and anyone else's) cynical and near-hysterical attempt to silence any criticism of him.

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  14. Someone said recently on the blog that they spotted you in a plush hotel recently Buckley. I myself have spotted you in the Carrickdale once filling your face. I was nearly going to confront you on that occasion but for my wife and my Mother. You also talk about meeting people in hotels so it's handy if you can live that sort of lifestyle. I for one can only afford to dine in a hotel very occasionally. Maybe because of your well known persona they feed you for free. You seemed to be well in with the staff at the time.

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    1. I think I was in the Carrickdale twice in the last few years - breaking a journey to Dublin.

      I normally have a sandwich there. It is many years since I had a meal there.

      I use hotels as a meeting place for people who cannot or do not want to come to Larne.

      We generally meet in the lounge where we can talk and the usual dare is a cup of tea / coffee or a sandwich.

      The Carrickdale is hardly 5 Star :-)

      You would have been welcome to come and speak to me or indeed challenge me in a rational way.

      If you went over the top I would call the polive for you. Simple.

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    2. So what you are basically saying if someone disagrees with you and confronts you about your answer is to call the Police on them. How gutless and spineless. I'm surprised you don't have a full time bodyguard like that Nigel Farage whose mouth gets him into trouble often.

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    3. No, what I am saying is that if people approach/confront me properly I will engage with them.

      If however, I am being aggressively attacked I always send for the police.

      At that stage cowards usually run away!

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    4. I hear from people that sometimes you do have a burly minder with you.

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  15. Some people are extremely generous when it comes to donating to church others expect everything for nothing. I once asked a school group to come up with a job description for a priest. I wonder what some on here might come up with. Would it be realistic. The underlying question should be what is religion for.

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    1. Its always the same. Life has its generous people and its mean people.

      The generous ones are in a minority.

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    2. On one hand you attack people who contribute to help their priests, but when it comes to pat they are dear friends. You are a hypocrite of the highest order. You wouldn't know real work if it hit you in the face.

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    3. I have worked as a barman, kitchen porter, waiter, labourer, cinema usher, security man, cinema projectionist etc etc.

      I never had a problem with work.

      In parishes I was happy to work from 9 am to midnight.

      Of course when we get older we are not as able.

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    4. Magna where did you get this so called phd of yours from? What fine establishment bestowed this award on you?

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    5. 15:43, I swear some of you people are illogical to the point being gifted.

      Read your first question again. If my doctoral degree is merely 'so-called', then it couldnt have come from any 'establishment ', now could it? (Sigh😧) So why did you ask? (No, please don't answer! Because your explanation will probably possess the same, hilarious quality of illogic. And I, being compassionate, would spare you that embarrassment.)

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    6. @15:43 I tried to leave a comment before saying that Magma wouldn't tell you. People with several PhDs are few and far between, at the top of their professions. If Magma were one of them he couldn't afford to be connected with his behaviour on here. However in his case he won't say because they don't exist. If he actually had several PhDs and came on here behaving the way he does he would a) keep their existence secret and b) wouldn't have a chip on his shoulder about how clever he thinks he is.
      And now he really will treat me to some venom. His sensible posts were earlier in the day - I wonder how many bottles he's got through by now.

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    7. So you do not have a phd. Thanks for clearing that up. Keep up the good work with the copy and pasting from Wikipedia.

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    8. 15:43, there is no doctorate. It's all part of the trolling of the troll.

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  16. I will gladly give my 10k per year to the Diocese no matter what you say.

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    1. 14:44, '10k per year to the Diocese'? Really? So was it you who financed Bishop Treanor's extravagance?

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    2. Partly financed. There's a lot of 10,000's in 4 million.

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    3. £10,000 to the Diocese? All I can say is, I hope the Diocese is not depending on it.. Ha ha.

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  17. Pat it seems some Waterford & Lismore Priests not only enjoy living it up but camping it up at the same time. Just watch one of them, Fr Richard, on Francis Brennan's Grand Tour of Vietnam on RTÉ 1 tonight at 8.30pm. An article in the 'Irish Independent last week said that some of the contestants out camped Francis Brennan the presenter, now that takes some beating. I hope auld Phonsie is watching it.

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    1. Maybe Fr. Richard is on a "sabbatical"?

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  18. How many traveller weddings do you do every year Pat? What are they like?

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    1. Interesting. There are wonderful people in that community - especially devoted mothers and grandmothers.

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    2. Would you ever do any of their weddings in england or outside of ireland?

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    3. And Pat do you clearly tell people who are divorced that their 'new marriage' is not valid in the eyes of God? Or does the fee keep you silent?

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    4. I tell people their marriage is valid in the eyes of God and the State but not in corrupt RC canon law.

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  19. Really why does a poster keep quizzing Pat about fee, money, gifts.
    Go and do some work.
    I'm a retired after a life of hard work.
    If I wanted to give a friend a gift of a car or money((( incidentally I have given to a friend, but not a priest))) it's my choice, so give over.

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  20. Iggy O'D's Mammy16 July 2017 at 20:19

    To Magna Carta. Iggy O'Donovan is that you, you big Luadramán?
    Haven't I told you you'll get into trouble again, after all that nonsense on Radio Eireann.

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  21. It was I who suggested a consideration as to the income and condition of retired priests.
    Unfortunately I am heavily involved in other matters over the next few days, but if it is acceptable I will forward to this blog the results of conversations I have had with two retired priests as to their financial and physical condition.
    Clearly, it did not rate highly in any contributions so far.

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  22. Do you declare tax Pat? How much do you get for weddings? Do you declare what you get for weddings in U.K. and ROI? What are travellers weddings like? Do you conduct such weddings outside Ireland in UK or elsewhere? Is the payment method by cash or cheque? Jesus, clearly this same person is not only being too inquisitive but downright rude and should shut the f up. Not only would the Police not ask such questions the Gestapo and Herr Flick would pale into insignificance. This matter is for you alone and HMRC, no other nosey b-s-a-d.

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  23. I wonder what the system is for the CofI. It would be interesting to compare. In Germany parish clergy are paid by the state. I'm sure that must include Muslims at this stage.

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  24. One hears stories of bridal couples who spend a lot of flowers and put a miserable sum in an envelope for the priest - I've heard of cases where the priest didn't even figure.

    The civil registrars have a set fee. I can imagine what would happen if a couple tried running £20/€25 to them.

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    1. But surely administering the Sacraments(including the Sacrament of Marriage) is part of the priest's job. Is it not? Why would he expect to be paid extra for merely doing his duty?

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  25. Well I didn't know who was Fr Richard tonite?

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  26. Jaysus Iggy I thought you'd learned your lesson. The OSA provincial will have your guts for garters.

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  27. Another boring diversion away from more important concerns, including grave scandal. They could easily be reverting to type up at Maynooth without this blog's constant vigilance; signing up on daddy-type dating sites, for example, or placing cheap 'no fats, fems or trolls' type ads in Craigslist for mature east European truckers and taxi drivers. Disgusting!

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    1. Daddies Sauce is very popular up at Maynooth.

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    2. Some of them in Maynooth do glance at this blog the odd time out of curiosity. But it is silly to think that it has any effect on their behaviour! They are mildly amused at times but would never take any blog that seriously,least of all this one! It is a conceit to imagine that you are maintaining "constant vigilance" as they are not particularly interested or bothered what people write.

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  28. 20.43
    Don't bother telling us
    It was I who said that the health service is there for all us oldies
    Not wonderful, but it helps us into the next world pain free.
    And if that isn't enough, there are good neighbours around too as well as social services

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  29. Who is this Iggy ? Why has his name suddenly come up. What is OSA ? Is this all code for a new Maynooth scandal. ?

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  30. OSA is the Order of St Augustine. Iggy O'Donovan is an out spoken member of the order.

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  31. Is the suggestion that Ignatius Donovan OSA and Magna Carta are the same person?

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